Give me the Who?

As a producer of what are known as branded podcasts - programmes created on behalf of organisations and brands - I’m often asked two questions: Who’s listening? And how many of them are there?

They’re perfectly reasonable queries. After all, clients want to know that their investment is paying off - that the podcast is delivering on its promise to build brand awareness, foster loyalty, drive thought leadership, and offer meaningful long-form engagement.

You’d think there’d be an easy answer. But pinning down podcast audiences remains a tricky business. The go-to metric is usually downloads. We’ve all heard it: “My show just hit two million downloads!” Cue applause, ad spend, and sponsor excitement. But downloads - or YouTube views if you’re also producing video podcasts - tell only a fraction of the story.

At the recent and excellent Podcast Show in London, we spent a few days immersed in the latest insights into what is fast becoming a cornerstone of the digital media landscape. Amid the research deep-dives and panel sessions, one talk stood out: Bumper Media’s “Planning for a Post-Download World”.

It sparked a thoughtful discussion around how branded podcast producers, clients, and agencies can assess performance without clinging to flashy download figures. Because a download is exactly that - just the number of times a server has sent a file to a device. It tells us little about whether the person actually listened or who they are. For deeper insights, we have to dig into backend data from platforms like Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

And this is where things get complicated. Each platform reports metrics differently, and much of the data we’d love to see is locked away as proprietary. We can often glean the number of plays, some gender breakdowns, a general geographic spread, and basic age profiles, but not much more. Crucially, we can’t know who is listening.

Of course, we’re not expecting Apple or Spotify to hand over names, emails, or social media handles. But wouldn’t it be helpful to know that a medically focused branded podcast was reaching healthcare professionals, or that a motoring podcast was hitting the mark with die-hard car enthusiasts who read the sponsor’s magazine?

To get closer to that kind of insight, we often have to stitch together data manually - feedback, surveys, anecdotal evidence - and even then, it’s rarely enough to stand up to scrutiny.

This is where the challenge lies. Advertising and marketing agencies entering the branded podcast space don’t want vague or unverifiable metrics. That’s why so many in our industry revert to downloads as their default currency. But agencies are wise to this now. If radio, TV, and other digital media platforms can deliver robust audience analytics, including the proverbial name of the listener/viewer’s dog, they’ll keep funnelling their budgets in that direction.

If we want to compete, as an industry, we need better tools and standards. We need clear, credible reporting that tells us who is listening, not just how many times a file was sent to a phone that may never play it.

Digi Media's CEO Neil McCafferty at the London Podcast Show, May 2025.